Thor: Yeah, when Mark reviewed us for Earpollution, we were most proud of that. It almost made me as happy as the time this music director from Pittsburgh, from some college station, left a five-minute bitch session on my answering machine about how much he hated our record, and that it was why he quit commercial radio, and why he wasn't doing it anymore was because of people like me. I'm thinking this guy reviews hundreds of records and for some reason he felt especially obligated to call me across the country and leave a five-minute complaint on my answering machine about my record. I thought, "Wow! That was way cool."

The Mark thing was similar, in that we pushed all the buttons that we wanted to. Music does not have to be about making you happy. This was more about how we pushed your buttons, which is exactly what we wanted.

[to G3orge]: I noticed on your web site that SLT is supposedly coming out with a new 2001 release. How's that going?

G3orge: That's a very good question. Slow but sure. I have many new toys to play with.

What is the story behind SLT anyway?

G3orge: It's a long story.

Is there a short version of it?

G3orge: Not really.

Uh...No? Okay... [To Thor] He's not going to answer questions?

G3orge: Toast.

Toast?

G3orge: Toast is the answer. Much better than most.

Thor: And pornography.

Pornography?

Thor: Yeah.

G3orge: That's...that's a long story. Well, the short of it was, my roommate was dating this woman who was a total bitch, and she was insufferable to be around. So, I spent a lot of time holed up in my room, recording this album. That is pretty much where the album came from.

Ah, okay. So what was it used for?

G3orge: It was not actually used for anything. It was not technically Released. I put a few tracks out on the web.

G3orge: Oh, hell yeah! Very electronic. I have many drum machines. I've got a modular synthesizer, and they are very cool.

[to G3orge]: So what is your role at Trocar Records?

G3orge: I am the doctor.

Thor: And my spiritual adviser.

From the perspective of a small label, tell me your perspective on the music industry.

Thor: That's a very big question. Now's a very interesting time in music and business. I think the biggest problem with most small labels and independent musicians is that they don't understand that it is a business. If you don't want to have a day job, and you don't want to work and you want to be in music, then it's a fuckin' business, it's a job--you work it, you do it. No one is going to come up and hand you anything because they think you are great, because you are not. You are just a person who writes songs.

It's true for anyone--unless maybe they had some big financial thing behind them that pushed them to think they are great. Regardless, their songs may be good, but they are still just a person who writes and sings. It's a business--that's your job, and you have to sell it. You make your life with what you have to bring to sell.

I hear that the big labels basically have select middlemen they hire to promote songs and music, who basically drive the charts. I can't remember what they are called.

Thor: Trocar Records hires radio promoters. We hire people to promote things. You have to--it's a business. It may not be good, it may be bad, but it's what you have to do. It's a business. Most people get grossed out by this, but it is a product. A record is a product. It doesn't matter what it is or how good it is, if you have it and no one hears it, no one is going to come looking to buy it.

I have learned a lot about these things, and my take on it has changed. When you go and try to have someone distribute your record, the first thing they ask you is, "Well how are you going to promote it? And, why would some kid in New Jersey walk into a store and buy it?"

They don't know you. You are not their friend. They don't hang out at some horrible club that you hang out in all the time, and they are not going to buy it. They want to hear it, and see it, and you have to get exposure somehow.

I think I am going off the topic here--could you repeat the question?

Your, perspective on the music industry as a small label. I think you answered that question.

Thor: But I'm not done yet. I think the only advantage that a major record company has over you is money. That's the only thing they have now.

What about contacts? Or does that go with the money?

Thor: You have to make your own contacts. You don't need anything for That. I have made mass contacts. That's just getting off your ass and making phone calls and doing research. All the information you need is there.

There are magazines like the Music Connection out of Los Angeles. It's kinda cheesy, but it is an industry magazine for working independent musicians. It has articles about how to get distribution, how to do this and that. If you ask someone, 90 percent of the time they will give it to you, unless it's giving you money for free. If you ask and are willing to do what's required to make it happen, they will help you.

Things have changed, for example, distribution is available to everyone now which is a cool thing. It is super easy to get world-wide distribution. I want to answer this question in more detail, but it's way complicated. As a small label, you have lots of advantages that they don't have--such as street credibility--and that is one thing that they can't buy.

That's true.

Thor: The thing is that you have to get off your ass and go play shows. That's how you do things. You don't need money for that. All you need to do is say this is what I am going to do, and then go out and do it.

It's more self-motivation than the sheer dollar behind it.

Thor: Right. Lot's of people have done that, and have made money in it. It's just a matter of doing it instead of saying, "Oh, I am an artist. I expect to be paid."

Do you have any role models in music? Can you tell me about them?

Thor: My personal favorite is Johnny Rotten. He's an ass, and I like him because he's an ass.

G3orge: I think he's more amusing.

Thor: He was always amusing. I like him as a person. He's funny, and does his thing. Ani DiFranco is an amazing case of what can be done if you are a motivated individual. I think she sold somewhere like three to five million records on her own, and she has like eight people who work for her. If she sold that many records, she got six to eight dollars a piece for them, which is way better than selling ten million of one record on a major label and walking away broke. She made Forbes list of top paid tours. I think last year or the year before she was on the list of top grossing tours.

Thor: Yeah. She'll play, like, 200 shows a year and sell out the venues. She's insane, though--she'll play bad venues. She came to Seattle and played at Snoqualmie Falls at a winery. It was a 16,000 seat venue at the top of a mountain with no parking. They had four shuttle buses.

Sounds like a fiasco. What about Courtney Love?

Thor: I think Courtney Love is a righteous individual. First of all, I think she is smart, she's together, and she has integrity. We actually have some stuff up on our website about her lawsuit. She is currently doing something I think is very rad, in that she is invoking a California statute against indentured servitude to get out of her record contract. It says you can't sign an employment agreement that can be enforced for more than seven years. Don Henley did it, Beck did it, and I think some others have done it. But at some point the record companies know this statute has never been tested in court, and they don't want it to be.

They settled it.

Thor: Yes. They offer a big sum of money to the artist, they take it and go away. And Courtney Love said no. She didn't care about the money, the point is that I am going to change the way things are. And she's stuck it out. If she wins--and there is a good likelihood she will--it will change every recording contract that is in effect.

That is awesome.

Thor: People say she's a stupid junky whore, and she's only famous because she married Kurt Cobain. People don't understand that she put out a record before Nirvana put out Bleach. And the album outsold Bleach two to one. People don't understand that.

G3orge: It's ambitious.

And who knows where Nirvana would have gone without her?

Thor: Yeah, and her career would have started years and years before his death; because she was caught up with whatever was going on in their lives.

I hear that you are moving to Los Angeles. How do you expect that to impact Trocar, and what is your ambition? Where do you want to see Trocar going in the future?

G3orge: The Holy Grail.

Thor: Moving to Los Angeles I think will be a good thing for Trocar. How will it impact the working relationships? There are several of us who already live there, and others, like G3orge, will still be here. Seattle does not understand music as the business that it is. And, I want to be warm and in the sunshine.

There are lots of opportunities down there that are not here. Over the past few years there had been a flood of people leaving here to go there. What is going on musically here is crap--it's all the same. The funny thing is that people say Los Angeles is fake and plastic. Well, Seattle is just as fake and plastic. The difference is that Los Angeles is up front about it.

Do you have any other opinions or comments? Or stuff you'd like to talk about?

Thor: There's always things I want to talk about. Trocar records is basically a group of people who work together to get things done. We don't deal with rock stars, or indie pop scenesters--we are us, we are just people, and we do our thing. We have managed to stay rock star free which is cool, and we've managed to do really cool things, and we did it on our own.

On the web:
Trocar Records

Inside Earpollution:
ROHT Rant album reivew
ROHT The Product of Indecision: Songs from Artistic Differences album review
Live review (08 December 2000, Seattle, WA)